Just a follow up to yesterday.

An e-friend responded to what I'd written about Joe The Plumber as follows:

Everyone knows that in a capitalistic society (which by the way, Hong Kong is more capitalist than our current American market is) that there has to be a lower class.

Sure I believe in the American dream but to everyone who is 'scared' of higher taxes on the rich 5% are the same ones who believe that the poor are somehow lazy and inferior to them and fight the war for the rich and the corporations when there is little chance they will be seeing any of that money in a lifetime annually.

When you are in the 250K bracket THEN you have a legitimate argument, but discussing hypothetical situations and demonizing Obama for being socialist when our own government funded a Bush-proposed bail out plan for Wall Street is moot.

-------------------------

And my response was:

Every person who pays taxes in this country has a say. Actually and more accurately, every person who is a legitimate citizen in this country has a say, whether they make 0 dollars per year or billions upon billions.

And when you get right down to it and step away from the republican versus democrat debates that will always fly fast and furious, this isn't a demonization of Obama. The discussion here was generated because of OP's condemnation of Joe the Plumber - a working citizen of this country with a dream who asked a question on national TV. It just so happened that Joe was speaking to Obama.

And so, again, I'll put this out there - you or I, all of us "Joe" 's here in the U.S.A., who work our 9 - 5 jobs, hoping to pay our bills and put food on the table, dreaming of something that will take us one step ahead of where we are now and somehow, some way, realizing that there might be a way to actually make that happen if we take chance X. Is it appropriate for the government to look any of us square in the eye and say, "I wish you well but be forewarned, we will take more of your money should you succeed in order to make sure people who don't have the wealth you enjoy can share in some of your profit."

Is that ok?

That's a question we should all take to heart and contemplate. I know you've recently fallen on some hard times from your posts here, sword_. If you were suddenly struck with a lightning bolt of inspiration regarding a realization of a dream that would kick-start a lucrative business - would you be ok with the government pulling extra money away from you just because you happened to come up with a successfully implemented idea? And would you be comfortable with the government levying unforetold fines upon you if you failed to implement a pre-approved health care plan for your employees?

If the answer is yes, then there's no further need for discussion. If the answer is no, or you're not sure - then there's a need and an obligation for you to think about more than the basic Obama vs. Mc Cain bullshit that is thrown at us all, ad nauseum, via the media.

And no matter who proposed the bail-out plan, the bottom line is rather simple, in my estimation - we have a conglomerate of inept men and women at the helm of our country's leadership. And it was a fully heterogenous agreement inside the senate to pass what was proposed. It was neither fully republican nor was it fully democrat.

Everybody voted together to pass the proposed bill. 74 - 25.

Akaka, Daniel K. D-Hi. Yes
Alexander, Lamar R-Tenn. Yes
Allard, Wayne R-Colo. No
Barrasso, John R-Wyo. No
Baucus, Max D-Mont. Yes
Bayh, Evan D-Ind. Yes
Bennett, Robert F. R-Utah Yes
Biden, Joseph R., Jr. D-Del. Yes
Bingaman, Jeff D-N.M. Yes
Bond, Christopher S. R-Mo. Yes
Boxer, Barbara D-Calif. Yes
Brown, Sherrod D-Ohio Yes
Brownback, Sam R-Kan. No
Bunning, Jim R-Ken. No
Burr, Richard R-N.C. Yes
Byrd, Robert C. D-W.V. Yes
Cantwell, Maria D-Wash. No
Cardin, Benjamin L. D-Md. Yes
Carper, Thomas R. D-Del. Yes
Casey, Robert P., Jr. D-Pa. Yes
Chambliss, Saxby R-Ga. Yes
Clinton, Hillary Rodham D-N.Y. Yes
Coburn, Tom R-Okla. Yes
Cochran, Thad R-Miss. No
Coleman, Norm R-Minn. Yes
Collins, Susan M. R-Maine Yes
Conrad, Kent D-N.D. Yes
Corker, Bob R-Tenn. Yes
Cornyn, John R-Texas Yes
Craig, Larry E. R-Idaho Yes
Crapo, Mike R-Idaho No
DeMint, Jim R-S.C. No
Dodd, Christopher J. D-Conn. Yes
Dole, Elizabeth R-N.C. No
Domenici, Pete V. R-N.M. Yes
Dorgan, Byron L. D-N.D. No
Durbin, Richard D-Ill. Yes
Ensign, John R-Nev. Yes
Enzi, Michael B. R-Wyo. No
Feingold, Russell D. D-Wis. No
Feinstein, Dianne D-Calif. Yes
Graham, Lindsey R-S.C. Yes
Grassley, Chuck R-Iowa Yes
Gregg, Judd R-N.H. Yes
Hagel, Chuck R-Neb. Yes
Harkin, Tom D-Iowa Yes
Hatch, Orrin G. R-Utah Yes
Hutchison, Kay Bailey R-Texas Yes
Inhofe, James M. R-Okla. No
Inouye, Daniel K. D-Hi. Yes
Isakson, Johnny R-Ga. Yes
Johnson, Tim D-S.D. No
Kennedy, Edward M. D-Mass. NA
Kerry, John F. D-Mass. Yes
Klobuchar, Amy D-Minn. Yes
Kohl, Herb D-Wis. Yes
Kyl, Jon R-Ariz. Yes
Landrieu, Mary L. D-La. No
Lautenberg, Frank R. D-N.J. Yes
Leahy, Patrick J. D-Vt. Yes
Levin, Carl D-Mich. Yes
Lieberman, Joseph I-Conn. Yes
Lincoln, Blanche L. D-Ark. Yes
Lugar, Richard G. R-Ind. Yes
Martinez, Mel R-Fla. Yes
McCain, John R - Ariz. Yes
McCaskill, Claire D - Mo. Yes
McConnell, Mitch R - Ky. Yes
Menendez, Robert D - NJ Yes
Mikulski, Barbara A. D - Md. Yes
Murkowski, Lisa R - Alas. Yes
Murray, Patty D - Wash. Yes
Nelson, Bill D - Fla.L No
Nelson, E. Benjamin D - Neb. Yes
Obama, Barack D - Ill. Yes
Pryor, Mark L. D - Ark Yes
Reed, Jack D - RI Yes
Reid, Harry D - Nev. Yes
Roberts, Pat R - Kan. No
Rockefeller, John D., IV D - WV Yes
Salazar, Ken D - Colo. Yes
Sanders, Bernard I - Vt. No
Schumer, Charles E. D - NY Yes
Sessions, Jeff R - Ala. No
Shelby, Richard C. R - Ala. No
Smith, Gordon H. R - Ore. Yes
Snowe, Olympia J. R - Maine Yes
Specter, Arlen R - Penn. Yes
Stabenow, Debbie D - Mich. No
Stevens, Ted R - Ak. Yes
Sununu, John E. R - NH Yes
Tester, Jon D - Mont. No
Thune, John R - SD Yes
Vitter, David R - La. No
Voinovich, George V. R - Ohio Yes
Warner, John R - Va. Yes
Webb, Jim D - Va. Yes
Whitehouse, Sheldon D - RI Yes
Wicker, Roger F. R - Miss. No
Wyden, Ron D - Ore No

Take a look, man. There are both repubs who voted yes and democrats who voted yes. There are dems who voted no and repubs who voted no. This isn't a republican versus democrat issue. This is a citizen of the U.S. versus elected official of the U.S. issue. Our tax dollars are already being funneled into the black hole these same people have created and the effect has been... negative.

Washington does not have a clue how to fix a broken thing they created in the first place.

Obama doesn't. Mc Cain doesn't. Paulson doesn't. Frank doesn't. Pelosi doesn't. Bush doesn't. Biden doesn't. Palin doesn't.

None of them do.

And you wanna know what the worst part is, to me? They're all getting richer while this is going on - our elected officials. This economic meltdown isn't affecting any of them in a significant way, their lifestyle remains the same. So, to them, whether or not "joe" has to pay more taxes into the mess really doesn't matter. It's just more money pulled from your paycheck and mine.

There's a real and disturbing disconnect between the focus of the issues in this election - the focus of where we're going as a country and what we want as a people - and the ability of the populace to figure out where to put the blame for the wrongs we have been dealt. Where were all the financial experts 4 weeks ago when someone should have at least mentioned the fact that we were just maybe on the verge of financial collapse? The same "experts" who now say we should be prepared for a volatile Wall Street for some time to come?

Washington needs an enema, it needs to have the shit flushed out - and by that, I'm talking about the two-party, same-old, same-old "that's the only choice you have, America" falsehood perpetrated by the media time and again that is gobbled up by people trying to live their lives and pay their bills - lock, stock and barrel.

The world isn't ending and it won't, no matter who gets into the White House. But it is unfortunate, in my eyes, that the people of this country have become like sheep in that they eat whatever they're fed by the media and bleat it out like it was written in stone.

-----------------

And he got it, where I was coming from.

Anyway, such is life.